Preparing Emotionally for Postpartum Recovery

[00:00:00] The crux of it when we come to the inner work is valuing ourselves. Like, do I value myself? Am I worthy enough to have my needs met? Welcome back to the Postpartum Prep Podcast. My name is Keridan. I'm your podcast host and your guide to preparing for a smoother start to life with your new baby.

[00:00:27] Here on the Postpartum Prep Podcast, we talk about all things preparing for life after birth, like preparing for feeding your baby, preparing for sleep, mental health, and so much more. Today we are joined by Carla from Carla Sage Birthwork. Carla is a mother, birth keeper, postpartum care provider, and fierce advocate for restoring value to mothers and postpartum care.

[00:00:54] She weaves body work, traditional postpartum cooking, and spiritual companionship into her care for mothers in her community, and mentors women on how to step into the role of postpartum care provider through her annual online program. Carla, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. I would love to know what inspired your journey into becoming a birth keeper and postpartum care provider?

[00:01:22] Well, thank you, Keridan, for having me. I was so excited when I discovered that your podcast exists because it is such an important part of preparing for birth and motherhood that just isn't touched on enough. Yeah.

[00:01:39] Yeah, so really happy to be here and to be, yeah, contributing. So my journey was inspired by my own two experiences of, yeah, giving birth and going through postpartum.

[00:01:59] I had two very different experiences, and the first one was unsupported, isolated, and basically lacking knowledge and awareness around postpartum and the experience of maiden to mother.

[00:02:22] And then my second journey with my second child was the opposite. It was incredibly supported, held. I did a lot of research and education in the years between having my two babies.

[00:02:42] And I really feel that I got quite close to the potential experience of postpartum that is available to us as women who live in a Western culture that, you know, generally lacks the village and that inherent postpartum support.

[00:03:04] So experiencing that potential was so incredibly inspiring. And I knew that, you know, all mothers should have this available to them. I was cared for by a wise woman who had been practising postpartum care for many years and seeing that in action was just mind-blowing.

[00:03:32] She would, yeah, come and brew me up broths and teas and a placenta preparation. She really held me as I integrated my birth story, integrated all of the changes in our family. So there was that deep sort of emotional support and spiritual companionship.

[00:03:57] And then, yeah, the physical care of body work and warming therapies. And, yeah, it just completely lit me up. I was like, this is a whole new world. This is so beautiful. And also just feeling on a cellular level how right this is.

[00:04:18] And so I emerged from that experience just so motivated to, yeah, want to be a part of this, like to make this normal. Yeah. Wow.

[00:04:34] It's so, I mean, amazing to hear that you came from originally a first experience that was so, you know, felt very unsupported and isolated to then going through an experience of having that real care for yourself in your second postpartum experience. It's especially interesting to hear that because now you are so well known for postpartum care.

[00:04:59] It's impressive to hear where you actually started with not being at all a part of this world. And I love to hear those kinds of things that you found supportive for yourself in your experience. And I'm wondering, in today's episode, we wanted to talk a little bit about the inner work of preparing for postpartum.

[00:05:27] But before we get into some of the practical tips about the inner work, I feel like, you know, hearing your story was so nice to hear about the real experience of being cared for so deeply and so deeply nourished in that second postpartum experience. And I was wondering if you can walk us through some of the things that really are helpful in postpartum that maybe we might not automatically think of.

[00:05:54] But the things that, you know, what does the postpartum healing journey really require? And yeah, so if you could walk us through, I'd love that. Sure. So I think firstly, it requires the awareness around what needs to happen and why.

[00:06:15] Because I really do see the postpartum, like the essence of postpartum and the principles are so much against the way we live modern life. And you're really, yeah, stepping into like a different world when you've given birth and you have your new baby.

[00:06:41] And like everything about that time needs to be different, including the way that your family usually operates, the roles, the pace of life. Yeah, it's just.

[00:07:00] I think it takes a lot for us to really compartmentalise and commit to being different, being soft, being slow, allowing other people to do things for us. So, yeah, it really does start with that awareness and a commitment because it's really not easy.

[00:07:28] To stay slow and to do nothing, essentially. I know that mothers can imagine like, oh, I'm going to have the baby and staying in bed will be easy because I'll be busy with the baby. But actually, like there's so much.

[00:07:48] There's often so much downtime where like the baby's just napping and it can be easy to feel restless and bored. So you do have to make that commitment to yourself, especially as like you pass through the first week and then the days go on.

[00:08:14] And yeah, staying slow for that long can be really triggering for a lot of women. Mm hmm. And I know we're going to talk a little bit about working through those triggers in a moment when we talk about the inner work. But I'm curious when you say, you know, staying slow for that long, how long are you kind of envisioning?

[00:08:36] So I work with the 777 concept and that is seven days in bed, seven days on the bed, seven days around the bed. So would you like me to explain what the difference between those seven days? Yeah. Just what that would look like. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:00] Seven days in the bed means being completely horizontal as much as possible, most likely tucked up in bed and ready to take a nap at any moment.

[00:09:15] Um, because, yeah, we sort of move from that, um, 12 hour clock of like night and day to a 24 hour clock where, um, sleep is broken up and you really do need to take any opportunity to, to get a nap in. Um, and usually the mother's very tired after birth as well as navigating a new sleep rhythm.

[00:09:42] Um, and so, yeah, just being in bed, being off your feet. And also the difference between horizontal and sitting up is that you are taking the pressure off the womb and the pelvic floor when you're lying horizontal. And it's also just like a constructive rest position that supports maximum healing in that time. Um, the next seven days on the bed is similar where you're still very much off your feet as much as possible.

[00:10:12] You might be sitting up a bit more. You might find that you don't need to sleep during the day as much. Um, and seven days around the bed means that you're still like bedroom focused largely. Um, but you might be starting to incorporate some movement and activity like, and you might venture out to the lounge room or the deck.

[00:10:39] Um, but still mostly just being in like that nest of your bedroom. Um, the seven, seven, seven is a great guide to go by, but ultimately we want each mother to, um, do what she feels best. Some women might need one of those phases to be longer. Um, some might find that they're recovering really quickly and they can shorten one of them.

[00:11:07] Um, but I think as a rule, it's, it's just great guide to have. Yeah. I've heard, you know, we talk a lot about the five, five, five. I don't know if it's like just different in Australia or if it's, but I think it's really nice to think of seven, seven, seven. And just, it really just emphasizes even more that need for rest in the postpartum stage.

[00:11:34] Yeah, I, um, I've heard the five, five, five as well. And I personally just think that we need to aim for a little bit longer. Um, and that's due to my knowledge about postpartum physiology and recovery and really understanding that is like, well, actually we can certainly lengthen those phases. And it's still probably not too much or too long. Um, so yeah, that's why I've stuck with it.

[00:12:03] I like it. And it's also simpler, just a week for each. Yeah, totally. Yep. I'm curious. Could you give us a little bit of a glimpse into what really is all that healing that is going in on, in the body during that stage? If, yeah, sure. So firstly, we need to recognize that postpartum recovery is not just about recovering from birth and what happens during birth.

[00:12:32] Um, it is also recovering and recalibrating from like nine, 10 months of pregnancy as well. And so I think there's two things I can say physiologically. The first one is the ligaments that, um, hold our womb in place.

[00:12:55] They stretch from being, you know, like an inch or two, um, in our normal life to, you know, growing several more inches with the womb. Wow. As the womb and the baby grow. And, you know, that's a really big deal.

[00:13:18] A lot of people connect to ligaments when they think about sporting injuries and tearing a ligament or straining a ligament and how normal it is for an athlete to take, to have surgery or take like, you know, six to eight weeks off. Um, sometimes several months off before they can return to their sport.

[00:13:44] And it's pretty much the same thing that's happened through pregnancy and birth and that we need to look after our ligaments and that the ligaments take a long time to heal. And so the best thing we can do for those ligaments is rest and be off our feet. Um, and, you know, certain nutrients in food, hydrating.

[00:14:13] Um, yeah, I mean, it is actually quite simple, but again, it's something that seems hard to achieve. You know, for a woman to be taking things slowly for several months while her ligaments heal is actually a big deal in the modern world. It's not impossible, but it takes a lot of intention and organisation.

[00:14:38] Um, I'll just come back to the other, like, physiological point. And that is that, um, the pelvic floor is going to be somewhat weakened through birth, um, regardless of it, if it was a caesarean birth or a vaginal birth.

[00:15:01] And then, so we have the pelvic floor, which is, um, you know, as weak as it's ever been. And then we have the womb sitting on top, which is heavier than what it's ever been. Um, I mean, the heaviest is when the baby and the placenta are inside, but even once the placenta and the baby are birthed, the womb is still quite heavy.

[00:15:30] And so for a heavy womb to be sitting on a weakened pelvic floor, um, places us at risk of pelvic floor damage or prolapse. If we are on our feet too early or for too long, or we are lifting heavy things or twisting, um, random movements, that kind of thing.

[00:15:56] And so really resting in postpartum is protecting ourselves from further injury. And the thing to know about postpartum injuries like prolapse is they are very hard to recover from. So you really do want to do everything within your control to prevent that from happening. That's really interesting.

[00:16:23] I, um, I had, you know, I've been doing postpartum care for several years and I didn't really know about the ligaments and things. So that's really interesting even for me to hear. And, um, you know, obviously I know the importance of prioritizing rest, but that I think really to just hear exactly what's going on really just drives it home. And, um, I'm actually really shocked that I didn't know all that before.

[00:16:53] Um, and that's amazing. So thank you for giving that, um, explanation. I'm curious, I know you do body work as part of, that's part of your toolkit. Is that, um, kind of pelvic floor related or kind of what do you do when it comes to body work? Like, so I, yeah, I'm not a pelvic floor specialist in any way.

[00:17:19] Um, and so a lot of my knowledge about the pelvic floor is theoretical and that, like I spoke before about like nutrition and hydration and rest. Like I know how to support it that way, but yeah, I haven't trained in pelvic body work. So I will usually refer women to go and see someone around six weeks postpartum. And we're lucky in this area that there's plenty of women that do specialize in that.

[00:17:49] So I haven't felt to train in that yet. Um, the body work that I do is, um, well, it's shiatsu body work. So it supports the meridians and the organ systems of the body. Um, it calms the nervous system.

[00:18:13] And there's also like pressure points and things where I can release tension in the body. Um, I'm in pretty much every postpartum session. I'm working on the mother's shoulders, neck and head because holding a baby and breastfeeding really strains those areas.

[00:18:32] Um, and I'm also studying craniosacral therapy at the moment, which is very much focused on the nervous system and recalibrating some of the major bones that open during birth, like the sacrum. Um, and so. Yeah, there's, there's, there's a bit of a blend going on in there, but I think ultimately.

[00:19:01] Ultimately, the body work that I do just allows a mother to feel really held in the same way that she's holding her newborn. And I can't speak to how important that is. Um, like it's actually an essential need that I think has been, um, swept under the rug because it, you know, it is a commodity, um, in the modern world where it costs money. And it's an extra thing.

[00:19:30] Um, so that's a real shame that it's come to that. But actually, like, I think physiologically, um, we require body work and loving touch as a newborn mother. Yeah. Yeah. I'm wondering for the moms who might be wondering where they could find that kind of body work.

[00:19:53] What might they Google, for example, to find someone in the area that might be able to provide that kind of care? Yeah. So, um, you could start with like the postpartum doula in your area and see if she's trained in any body work. Um, and if not, she'll probably know someone.

[00:20:16] Um, but in terms of, um, modalities, uh, there's like Abhyanga, the Ayurvedic massage. Um, there's, yeah, Shiatsu, um, even like acupuncture and Chinese medicine offer often has something to offer a postpartum woman.

[00:20:39] Um, yeah, craniosacral therapy, like usually always is going to be beneficial in those early weeks. And again, postpartum specific, uh, and then like moving into the more pelvic realms, there's, um, Mayan abdominal massage, um, which I think has changed its name to, um, to Licks.

[00:21:05] And I, I'll be able to share the spelling of that with you. Um, I can't think of it off the top of my head right now. Uh, and then there's holistic pelvic care, which is a modality created by Tammy Lynn Kent, who's based in the States, but she has trained women all over the world. Um, so yeah, that's all I can really think of at the moment. Um, that's an amazing list.

[00:21:35] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite, uh, quite, I feel like there must be something in there that no matter where you live, you'll be able to find someone surely who hope. Well, I hope you, um, the people that are listening would be able to, um, and I guess this is just one example of the kinds of support that are so important for postpartum moms.

[00:21:57] Um, which kind of brings me to our, the next kind of topic that I wanted to touch on in this episode, um, looking at the inner work for, um, that's needed for postpartum recovery.

[00:22:12] Um, I just wanted to start or to continue or yeah, to, to start this, I wanted to actually give a quote from your Instagram, um, a caption, which is, I, I basically, I saw this post and immediately sent it back to Carla and said, please, will you come and talk about this on the podcast? Um, so I'm going to just quickly read you, um, this is a quote from Carla's Instagram.

[00:22:37] She says, when people think of postpartum preparation, they think of freezing some meals, organizing a meal train, getting all the things ready for mama and baby time off work, et cetera. Yet it's so much more than logistics and organization. Inner work is needed. That means looking at our fears, belief, conditioning, and habits that may hold back our healing in postpartum.

[00:22:59] Um, and you gave a few examples of, um, common blocks that women tend to have, um, that they may need to work through before giving birth to support their postpartum healing. So I wanted to touch on those blocks, but one of them was, you know, we've talked about the real need for support. We talked about your experience having, you know, the lack of support compared to real support. Um, we've talked about, you know, the need for body work.

[00:23:27] And also if we're going to be resting for, um, 777, 21 days in bed, how are we going to be supported with the other things in our lives? Um, I feel like I am constantly talking about on the podcast, the need for support. So hopefully anyone listening will understand that support is really crucial.

[00:23:47] But like you say in your, your, in your post, you said a lot of us, we have, um, a lot of blocks to this because we can struggle to ask for help. Or we might feel kind of a rejection of that need for stillness at the postpartum period require. I was wondering if you can maybe just talk a little bit more about those kinds of blocks. For sure.

[00:24:14] Well, like I said before, stepping into postpartum is stepping into something so different to what you might have ever experienced in your life before. Um, we lived in, uh, we live in a fast paced society where there's so much, um, value placed on productivity and being busy and doing things.

[00:24:37] And so many of us have never learned the, um, value that comes from rest. And so many of us haven't learned that we are valuable, even if we're not doing things and achieving and being busy.

[00:24:56] So to get, come to postpartum and to honor yourself and the rest period can be really like discombobulating and it can bring up a lot. And so there's no better time to look at that than before you give birth.

[00:25:20] Um, I mean, I think it's something ideally we start before pregnancy because I do see it as like a life's work to unravel, especially when we've never seen that example around us. I know for me and many of the mothers I support their mothers didn't ever rest in front of them, even in their own postpartum.

[00:25:43] Um, and so, yeah, it does take a bit of a deep dive to be like, well, what is my relationship to rest? And how am I going to see myself if I'm doing nothing but look after my baby for six weeks? Um, can I accept myself? Can I be resilient to the opinions of others that come in when they're like, oh, what?

[00:26:10] You're not even doing drop off for your older kids yet. And you're six weeks postpartum, like there's those sorts of opinions, unfortunately, that you might be subject to. And. Yeah, like this deep dive is so important because we're not going to execute the logistics. If we ourselves can't truly receive.

[00:26:40] That's so true. Wow. I feel like, you know, obviously I was really touched by your post, but even just hearing you explain it now, I feel. Slightly like mind blown. Just to hear about that, that idea. How are we supposed to receive if we are not even accepting of our need for it ourselves? Yeah.

[00:27:06] I know, um, you kind of mentioned about, um, also whether that may sometimes be passed down from our mothers. And you had, um, a post recently, didn't, didn't, didn't you, that was about the kind of, I don't know, do you want to explain what your recent post was? Sure.

[00:27:29] So my recent post was about how, um, as new mothers, our mum or our mother-in-law, um, may be very triggered by our choices in postpartum. Um, and you know, especially the choices to move slowly and to receive help, to ask for help, to invest in our care.

[00:27:53] Um, and the older women in our lives can be triggered by that because they didn't have any support. That was like the standard across the board for women in that generation. They also didn't have any knowledge and education. There was a huge void at that time.

[00:28:13] And that was a part of, um, pregnancy and birth care moving from the home into the hospital system.

[00:28:23] Um, a necessary part of that system change was erasing the postpartum wisdom and traditions, as well as the rise of the capitalist structure, which requires that everybody is in the workforce.

[00:28:45] And that, you know, that, you know, that, you know, that, you know, maybe even their mother or mother-in-law at that point was also in the workforce. And so there's this huge separation. There's this lack of, of people that have something to give.

[00:29:12] And, you know, I feel for my mother-in-law and my mum who were at home on their own in their postpartum with no support.

[00:29:23] And so there's a compassionate space that I have for them, um, even amongst the projections and the behaviour and emotional maturity that they, um, brought into my postpartum space. I'm curious, um, because you had two very different postpartum experiences.

[00:29:51] When you did have a more rest, uh, focused, care-focused postpartum experience, was it difficult for you in those relationships with your mother or your mother-in-law to kind of navigate the difference between what they had experienced? Yeah. Yes. Yes. So we don't have to go too personal, but it just made me think.

[00:30:19] I'm happy to, because I think I could make a really good point here. Um, so just to be clear, my mum was not, my mum passed away before I had my babies. Okay. So, but I did have my mother-in-law, um, in our lives. She still is in our lives.

[00:30:38] Um, and it was interesting to see that she was more comfortable, um, in my space the first time around when I was struggling and I hadn't organised any support for myself. And I didn't know what I need to even ask for what I needed. Um, and I had, um, the second time around when I put all those things in place, I had community support. I had, um, the wise woman care.

[00:31:07] I had just so many systems and things, um, set up for our family. It was in that postpartum where I got the pushback from her and where she really let her triggers show in quite a nasty way. Um, and I can list off a few examples. Um, the first one was that she was at our house when someone in my community was dropping off a meal.

[00:31:37] And she said, she like reacted to that and was like, oh gosh, um, that's a lot. I hope you're going to do that for other mums, Carla. And you know, this is me. Little does she know. This is me at three weeks postpartum, still very tender, like holding my newborn and just receiving this attacking energy. She would make comments like, oh gee, I thought you would be on your feet by now.

[00:32:05] And, um, another moment that I clearly remember is, um, my partner had gone back to work at this point and it was six o'clock at night and he was on his way home. And she, she was dropping off my daughter from having like an outing that day. And she was like, where's dinner? Like, why haven't you cooked dinner for your partner? Like he's been at work all day.

[00:32:33] Like he deserves a really lovely dinner when you get home. And, you know, like I actually had, there was food in the fridge that we were going to heat up for dinner, but she just, yeah, projected all of this negative energy. And, yeah, just could not believe that I wasn't slaving away in the kitchen. Um, and yeah, so that's a short list of many things that happened.

[00:33:03] Um, and you know, for that postpartum, I kind of sensed that that could happen. And so I didn't let her into my space till three weeks after the baby was born. She lives interstate from me. So we'd organized that shit, they would, that her and her husband would come and help us out at three weeks postpartum. And I also gave her very specific tasks. I didn't want her in my space, um, helping out.

[00:33:33] I wanted her to help out with my older child and they didn't stay in our home either. They, um, had accommodation elsewhere. So, you know, I did my best to make sure that we could all kind of be together and that she could see the newborn, um, without it being too eruptive. Right.

[00:33:57] I, I, I really appreciate you giving some personal examples because although these are very personal examples, I also think they're extremely relatable examples. And I think, you know, the feedback that you had from your recent post where you kind of touched on this, I think shows it is sadly quite relatable.

[00:34:17] Um, but I just wanted to pick out for our listeners who are currently pregnant and might be thinking ahead about their own postpartum journey and planning for it. I wanted to pick out some things that you mentioned about kind of, you had some boundaries around like when they were going to come, um, and kind of what specific activities or things that they could, that, that, you know, she could help with.

[00:34:46] Um, obviously there were, it didn't completely make everything a hundred percent better, but do you feel like those would be some things that you would recommend for moms who are kind of starting to plan for their postpartum experience if they think they might end with a, in a kind of similar situation? Are there any other ideas that you would have? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:35:12] I think that, um, yeah, it's so important to, yeah, understand like who is around you, what is their story? What is their relationship to postpartum? Um, and how can they help? Uh, I, I think it's, it's not good enough to think like, oh, well, my mom's going to come and she's going to help.

[00:35:39] Or my mother-in-law's going to come and she's going to help because sometimes, um, they might not be the right people to have in your space. Um, they could be too overbearing, um, too opinionative, too judgmental of what you're doing. Um, and then we have the other end of the spectrum where they literally don't show up at all.

[00:36:04] And you thought like, oh, surely my mom would want to help me during this huge time in my life. And then you hear these excuses like, oh, but I have, um, I planned a coffee date that morning with my friends or, um, I'm just too tired today. Or like, um, there's definitely those real life examples as well.

[00:36:28] Um, so it is, yeah, so much about, um, like reading your family members, like reading them each personally and then trying to decide like how they can be in your space. Um, I think, or how they can contribute. Um, I'm such a big fan of delegating roles.

[00:36:53] And I find that actually, um, a lot of the older generation really thrive in that. Um, because ultimately they do want to help. My mother-in-law really wanted to help us, um, like that she did have those intentions there. And so it, it was the best thing I could do to say, hey, I want you to come and I want you to look after my older child. I want you to take her on outings.

[00:37:21] I want you to drop her off to her kindy on these days. Um, I want you to like, think of a special gift for her to make her feel special. And my mother-in-law was so happy to have something to do. And, and she did it really well.

[00:37:40] Um, had it been another, another job that I chose like more from an unconscious place, it could have been a disaster. Like if it was something that was more in my home and in my space, I think there just would have been that constant clashing.

[00:37:59] Um, but you found a way to involve her in a way that was actually helpful for you, but still in a way that felt comfortable for you. Totally. And I think just another note on the delegating roles, um, that can be very important because you can have people in your life who are like, yeah, I want to help you. I'll show up for you.

[00:38:24] But then they actually don't know what to do because they're not postpartum literate. And, you know, there's this classic saying of like, let me know what you need. And for a new mother who's in the depths of her experience, she can't even really articulate what she needs or she's not in the headspace. To be organizing at that point.

[00:38:46] And so to do that in the pregnancy, when you're in a more like mentally switched on place is so valuable to divide up the roles. And then those people who would normally be quite lost in the postpartum realm will be like, okay, so my job is to pick up the groceries on Thursdays and, um, pick up the laundry and, and wash it and fold it and bring it back. Like, yeah. And it's super specific.

[00:39:15] And I think that's really helpful for people. Yeah. And I think it's so true. People often, they genuinely do want to be involved. Um, it just, it, we, yeah, I love that. Actually, that term you use postpartum literate. That's a great way to describe it is some people just aren't postpartum literate and don't really know, like, actually, I want to help. But like, what do people even need?

[00:39:41] And especially as new moms, I think sometimes we're so, um, overwhelmed with everything. It almost can feel like just one more thing to do to like have to actually figure out, well, what could this person do? Who could? Yeah, I love it. Um, I have to reflect something back to you though. When, you know, talking about the inner work of postpartum, I thought this was like a great example because when you were describing, um, when you reached out to your mother-in-law and you asked, can you help with X, Y, Z tasks?

[00:40:09] I felt like my chest really kind of tied in because I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't imagine having to ask these things. And like, it's like the, yeah, the actual kind of, you know, it sounds great in theory, but I'm thinking maybe some of our listeners might feel the same. Like, oh yeah, I'd love to ask, but the idea of asking just doesn't like, what if they say no? What if they get angry?

[00:40:37] What if they, what if they give me, well, why should I be doing all of that for you? Like, um, it feels actually quite anxiety provoking, I guess, the idea of asking. So I'm wondering if, you know, there are any other moms who feel like the same way. Do you have any advice for dealing with those feelings? Oh, absolutely. And that, yeah, speaks to the inner work required to prepare for postpartum.

[00:41:03] And I know I rattled it off like, oh, I asked her to do this and this as though it was easy. It was not easy for me. And, you know, this is also my second baby where I had that huge learning experience. I was, um, four years into my motherhood journey by this point. And so I was more comfortable with boundaries and asking specifically what I need and, and that kind of thing. But it took me a long time to get to that point.

[00:41:33] And so really like the crux of it, when we come to the inner work is valuing ourselves. Like, do I value myself? Am I worthy enough to have my needs met? Something that helps with this is understanding that having our needs met as mothers is never selfish.

[00:42:02] Because our baby and our children depend on us. So whenever we are asking for something for ourselves, we are asking for something for our children. And when we don't value ourselves and when we let our needs slide, it's our children and our baby that suffers.

[00:42:28] And so I think that's a huge one because our culture loves to label people selfish. Like, like it's almost like rude to ask for what you want and you're selfish for doing that. Um, and it's just, it becomes the inverse in postpartum and motherhood.

[00:42:49] It's like, if you're looking out for yourself and you're having your needs met, then you're going to be a better mother and your children are going to be better off. So true. And I feel like some of us learn that lesson only too late into motherhood and to really, really feel grounded in that going into motherhood. If anyone listening is, this is their first kind of entrance into motherhood.

[00:43:18] Just knowing, yeah, that you do deserve all the support and care that you can have. Because it truly does. How can you care for your baby if you are not feeling well yourself? No. It's, it's, yeah. And support is such a big part of that. I think sometimes we think it's just about, okay, well, I'll just have to, I'll have to do everything that I need to do to take care of myself.

[00:43:45] But that's the whole point, I think, of partly what we're talking about today is it's not always just, you're not going to be able to do it all yourself. And actually, another part of kind of learning, learning your way through motherhood is learning to accept support.

[00:44:02] And I think one thing actually that can make a really big difference is just finding the people that also have those same values as you of, you know, of also valuing support and care for mothers. And obviously that might not, you know, be the people like, it would be great if your mother or your mother-in-law already had that kind of perspective themselves.

[00:44:26] But if they don't, you can still also find the other people who do and building your village kind of during pregnancy is, I think I have some episodes about that. So I can be sure to link them in the show notes as well. I wanted to touch on one more thing before we end the episode, because although this episode and this podcast in general is for pregnant moms,

[00:44:51] I do know we have at least a couple, if not more people who listen who are interested in postpartum care themselves, or maybe they already work in some kind of birth work postpartum related kind of role. And I do think for, even if they don't already work in that kind of role, I think just like your experience,

[00:45:17] kind of when you've gone through postpartum yourself, it can really inspire you into wanting to work in, not even work, but just kind of learn to care for other mothers. And I know that that is something that you help people learn how to do, right? Could you tell us a little bit about it? Yeah, sure.

[00:45:38] So, yeah, I guess like my learning pathway has been very organic and I got to apprentice with the woman that cared for me, which I really do value as the best possible learning. And when I looked at like the doula trainings that were available in my country,

[00:46:05] they all seemed so surface level when it came to the postpartum doula side of things. And yeah, I guess I just really like over as the years went by, I got to this point where I was like, I want to fill that gap. Like, and I had women coming to me and saying like, can I learn from you as well? And so that's sort of what activated it.

[00:46:29] And I've got my fifth round of the mentorship coming up in April. So I've been, I started this four years ago. And yeah, it's a mentorship that I believe offers the depth to form the postpartum caregiver that mothers really need.

[00:46:56] So the postpartum caregiver that can meet all layers of their experience, the physical, the spiritual, the mental and emotional and the energetic as well. And I think something that really sets my mentorship apart is the education around postpartum planning and preparation.

[00:47:23] It takes up a huge part of the mentorship. And that's because I believe that all postpartum doulas should be able to facilitate this for families, to educate not only the mother and the father, but anybody else in their circle. Because really it's that education and preparation that sets us up for our experience. And I know that you are passionate about this and that's the whole point of your podcast.

[00:47:54] And like I said at the start of this episode, it's just such a missing piece in our birth culture, where there's so much emphasis on birth planning and preparation and postpartum is like an afterthought, when actually postpartum is the biggest part. And so, yeah, that's why I've made it a huge part of the mentorship,

[00:48:22] but also through learning how to plan and prepare a family, you're also receiving that deeper education on what mothers are going through physiologically and spiritually through their matrescence as well. Wow, that sounds amazing. I'm like, I want to do this. I wanted to say something about the postpartum preparation side of things.

[00:48:51] Oh, I was thinking, it made me think about when I was pregnant, I waited. Like I had a couple books actually on postpartum, but I thought that I would wait until I was postpartum to read them, only to discover actually everything I needed to know before I gave birth. So, because it was actually all about planning and preparing for postpartum.

[00:49:15] And I think that just really highlights how important really postpartum preparation really is. And I love that that's such a big focus of your practitioner training. If you have already done this for four rounds, does that mean there's already plenty of people who have trained with you?

[00:49:39] Yeah, I guess there's probably about, yeah, 50 or 60 women. Wow. Yeah. Are they mainly? Sorry? Sorry. I was just going to say, is that mainly in Australia or around the world? Mostly in Australia, but there is women, yeah, internationally in many countries that have also done the training.

[00:50:05] And I've just last week decided to do a directory of everyone. I was going to ask. With me. Yeah. Yeah, where they're located and just how to connect with them. So that is on my website now. And I have like several more to add because those, they've just been sending me their details over the last few days.

[00:50:31] But yeah, I was like finally realized to put that in place because it will be helpful. Yeah. I actually just got goosebumps when you said that. Just because I guess I'm imagining now it will be really easy for people to, for moms to find people who are trained in all of these like amazing modalities and have all this education and tools to be able to really help people prepare for a more nourishing postpartum.

[00:51:01] That's really exciting to hear. We're coming to the end of our episode, but I do have one last question, which I like to ask everyone who comes on the podcast. If you could go back and speak to yourself when you were pregnant with your first baby, what would you tell her?

[00:51:17] I would say that she deserves rest, that she needs to have a lot more people around her and involved in postpartum. And, and that she does need a postpartum doula as well,

[00:51:42] because I actually had one living close by me and I like rejected that and thought that my midwife would be that person for me. And she absolutely wasn't because midwives can't really be. So, I mean, yeah, I'll just leave it there because there's so much more that I would want to tell her, but I think they're the main points. Yeah. Oh, I, I, I think that's a great point to make.

[00:52:10] Um, and I, I think actually a really relatable point because I think midwife, I'm a lactation counselor and I think often the lactation piece of things gets kind of also passed on to midwives. And I think midwives have a lot that is kind of expected of them. Um, and actually there's like a whole network of people that work in postpartum support and we all work together to make sure that moms are really supported.

[00:52:36] So, um, yeah, I definitely recommend that people look into what other kind of postpartum support is available in their area. Thank you so much, Carla, for talking with us today. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you or work with you? Um, thank you. It's been, yeah, so lovely to chat. I've really enjoyed it.

[00:52:59] Um, my Instagram is Carla with a C dot sage dot birth work. And my website is, um, traditional healing birth work.com. Amazing. And everything will be linked in the episode description and in the show notes as well.

[00:53:27] Um, Carla and I are about to record a Q and a episode on nutrition for postpartum healing and energy, which I think will go really well hand in hand with this episode. So if you enjoyed this episode, you'll definitely want to listen to the Q and a episode. It will be out if it's, if you're listening the day that this episode is recorded, it should be out tomorrow or very soon after. And, um, if you're listening in the future, that the Q and a episode is probably already out. So go ahead and find that episode.

[00:53:56] Um, thank you for listening to the postpartum prep podcast today. If you're new here, please be sure to subscribe or follow. And you can also leave a review if you enjoyed this episode. It's reviews are the best way to help the podcast grow and to help this information reach other mothers. You can also share this episode with another mom or maybe even grandmother or mother-in-law who might benefit from learning more about the importance of rest and postpartum and helping

[00:54:24] them to work through the inner blocks to having a nourishing and healing postpartum recovery journey. Thank you for listening and we will see you in the Q and a episode.